Bad Night
I was talking to Kim yesterday evening about what seems to be a very Pagan attitude to general interactions that they have with the public, and events in particular. This was hot on the heels of the Ludlow Esoteric Conference and Bookfair, numerous conversations I had during the day about a forthcoming event and a look at what else was on the calendar for the coming months.
The attitude in question appears to be that, because it's a Pagan event, it's acceptable to be sloppy, late and or/ home-spun and even disorganised. There seems to be a very 'mañana' attitude towards timekeeping, with late starts the norm. Ticketing and paperwork are often scruffy and poorly presented. Websites, if they exist are amateurish, clunky and often difficult to navigate and infrequently offer ticket purchase online. Why is this so?
There are notable exceptions; the Mercian Gathering had their tickets for September 2008 out before Yule 2007 with clear instructions about the event. The gathering itself, though on the surface a relaxed affair, has the organisational excellence that allows it to look 'easy' when all the while there's a lot of planning coming to fruition and hard work behind the scenes.
Is it that hard work and planning are dirty words in the Pagan world? I know a lot of Hedge Witches who work incredibly hard, but I do wonder about a hard core of the black-clad I'm-too-mystical-to-dirty-my-hands-with-work brigade, the sort that mince about in black velvet, lace or matrix-like black coats and look like they never see the sunshine.Why is it that professionalism, organisation and efficiency are seen as bad things?
Given an event with 'relaxed' organisation, like Ludlow, it seems that any criticism elicits personal attack from what I can only assume are fans or those close to the organisers.
The Ugly Sisters - What a collection of vain, vacuous, deeply unattractive people (TGW, Sheshat, Shepton, Arnametia). Why bother to go to Ludlow, as you missed most. The subjects were not glamorous enough, were they? Not that you, O Brainless Ones, could understand them - your only orgasms being the Regency row. Your cheap "pagan" (you would like to think)image gives the occult a bad name. If lip-gloss & shopping was not a priority, you would have noticed the "poor woman" was speaker 2. Your collective ignorance & self-importance stopped you enjoying the essence of a lovely and informative day - but then it was over your heads and "ignorance is bliss". Get a life, get a path, before it's too late.
And all this because the first lecture had been uninspiring and we had decided to go off to move cars and then have some lunch together as we rarely have the chance to meet up! These comments, from someone who didn't have the guts or decency to identify themselves, may have been from an expert in Event Management, or perhaps a professional standard speaker and presenter, we'll never know as it's the usual hit-and-run snide attack by someone who doesn't understand the difference between Pagan and occult.
There is a regular theme in Pagan circles about how nobody takes us seriously, that we're such a put-upon minority, yada, yada, yada - yet this is a perfect example of why it isn't changing and won't change until we buck up and stop being lazy and whingeing. I was underwhelmed with a 'conference', even though that is a misnomer, and because I had the temerity to say so, I'm ignorant, vacuous and self-important. Quite possibly, the accusations levelled at me are true, it's entirely a mater or perspective and opinion, but I can say with absolute certainty that I could have organised a better event and that my manners are vastly better than the anonymous poster.
I just needed to get that of my chest. Last night was a bad night - as well as this flea bite on the arse of life, my son is having a terrible time of things and I spent a long time on the phone trying to help him and make the best of a dreadful situation. This went on until nearly 1 a.m. and it was emotionally draining. I wish there was something I could do to help or make things better, and though I know there isn't, it's upsetting knowing that I can't. He has had beter nights, and so have I.
posted by The Shepton Witch @ 07:32
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9 Comments:
Aww, honey! That is terrible. I cannot begin to understand the people that think they know/are better than anyone else, be they Pagan or not. We are all just individuals with our own interests and tastes and there is absolutely nothing wrong with voicing the fact that something didn't meet those tastes. I've said it before and I'll say it again. People are stupid.
{{{HUGS}}}
Hey FoxChild! I think there's a very different cultural attitude to how people express themselves between the English and Americans.
It seems to me that Americans can go to the same event and talk about it, one can like it and the other dislike it and they can agree to disagree. In England, we seem incapable of doing that. I got the distinct impression that I was somehow 'spoiling' the event for anonymous because I had said I didn't think that much of it. Perhaps we're more weak minded over here and unable to like a thing in the face of disagreement; who knows?
Either way, it's a shame.
No, it isn't just an English attitude. It happens over here in the states as well. Really it is quite sad. If more people would be willing to listen to the opinions that others expressed with a bit more openness and understanding then everyone may just learn a little something they didn't know before.
Me? I don't think I could have sat through a lecture no matter the subject matter. I don't do well with being talked at. I think I would have had a very similar response to the whole day that you did, so you are not alone in your thinking.
I think it is appalling that this has happened, SW. It's awful that you've been insulted in this way, and I just don't get it. Why do Pagans treat fellow Pagans in this way? There's just no need for it. I used to be a member of a Pagan message board, but I don't visit that frequently these days because of outbursts like this. There were those that seemed to relish belittling and walking over people, and this is why I made my comments on Seshat's Voice the other day because I was dead scared of a similar pattern evolving. Thank heavens that isn't the case. I accept that the Pagan umbrella is huge and in many ways we all walk our own path, but please, let's respect each other and the paths we walk! My life, like yours, is stressful enough, and I don't need the added stress of petty squabbles and I'm sure you don't either!
There is such a thing as 'Pagan time' and for people who are used to working to deadlines, tight schedules and punctual meetings, 'Pagan time' can be a pain in the proverbial! Whilst I am the very first to admit that I may be a tad anally retentive and no doubt have a need to 'chill' I think there is something to be said for respecting the nature of the conference, the speakers and the delegates.
There is, of course, a flip side, and that is that many people leave organising such events to the few. These brave few battle on, very often unsupported, and therefore things do go wrong or are not as tight as they could otherwise be. I don't think that's just a Pagan thing, it seems to often be the case the world over.
I wish you and your son well.
Thank you Andy. My son has had his life turned upside down and is in a terrible state so any healing, supportive energies would be appreciated.
It is a shame that there are so few things for Pagans and you're probably right about all the work being left to a few people. Maybe it's time we did something to change that.
Peace Shepton Witch,
The first half of this post reminded me strongly of Muslim events. Poor organisation, etc, are not preserves of Pagans alone I'm afraid. If you ever visit a Muslim country, you may well observe the 'Insha Allah School of Driving' in which drivers go so fast it really is all in God's hands whether we survive at all!
Moreover, and I have caught myself doing it too, when a Muslim says insha Allah (God willing) I'll be there at 1pm, it could mean 1.30, 2.30 or 4pm!! ;)
As for the rude and aggressive comment, I don't think I can add anything to your forceful response.
I am sorry to hear of your son's troubles. I wish him and you well too.
Abdur Rahman
I have seen first hand experience of the 'Insha Allah School of Driving' whilst in Cairo. It's either barrelling along at full tilt or being in a traffic jam where you couldn't slip a bit of paper between the cars, literally!
Our favourite place is Marrakech, and it's a bit calmer there, though still not what you'd consider sedate. We're having our honeymoon and a wedding feast there and want several local people to join us - the hospitality and amazing warmth of the Marrakshis is just amazing. So, we're having to time things for after sundown, but knowing the way time is a bit stretchy there, it'll happen when it happens!
Thank you for your good wishes for my son - he's bearing up, but I think it will be a long road.
Hmmm, yes, my reply was rather sharp - the result of very little sleep and a severe intolerance of bad manners. I suppose it was naive of me to allow anonymous comments, but it happens so rarely on other sites I run or frequent that I'd forgotten how unpleasant it was. Never mind, let's hope this was the exception that makes the rule.
Heya SW,
I know what you mean about poor organization at pagan/occult events. There are some who do admirably and there is some improvement, but as one of the other commentators pointed out, it is often left to the few to work at these things. I, myself, volunteered for an event, and was left for hours without the promised relief from other volunteers. Very frustrating.
I have also encountered those who think it permissible to titter and giggle all through a lecture; leaving the rest of us struggling to hear. I would prefer people leave if they are bored.
As to Anon, who left you that vitriol - they obviously have their own problems and don't speak for the organizers of the Ludlow Conference. The fact is, Anon is a coward, otherwise they would have left a name and offered you the chance to respond. I'm sorry you had to suffer such abuse.
I hope your son's situation improves.
AC
Hello AC - I can imagine that you weren't best pleased at being left to get on with things. I know people can find me a bit Teutonic and Sergeant Majorish at times, but if you're running an event it's essential that you look after the people helping out as well as the delegates.
I've organised and run seminars, conferences, summer balls and business get-togethers and never had trouble from delegates! My view is that if someone is being disruptive and spoiling it for others, they get ejected. It's perfectly simple and doesn't take much organising, saves all the angst and upset for people who really want to be there and listening to whatever the talk is about. It doesn't take much of that clear, black and white treatment to make the hecklers and childish, disruptive element wonder if it's worth their while to pay for a ticket to whatever the event is!
It does make me wonder about the sort of people who do this sort of thing - why pay for a ticket, travel to an event and then make a nuisance of themselves? I wasn't too impressed with the first talk so I just got up, slipped quietly out of the auditorium and left those who were interested to it. It would have been selfish and unkind to have made a noise, interrupted or made it difficult for the speaker (or the audience to hear him), and surely that sort of action is simple enough to emulate?
Goodness, knows, if I ever organised anything Pagan I think I'd probably have to invest in handcuffs and gags, if your experience is the norm!!!
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